1) the next e-mail with music that doesn´t fit in with what is normally posted here or is accompanied by promotion bullshit like LONG DESERT COWBOY gets deleted without being mentioned here!2) as I thought a lot about what Ken / PRANK rec. wrote here I decided that from now on I will just upload stuff that´s old and out of print or stuff where I got the bands / labels permission to do so! cause of this
3) dead links from old post won´t be re-upped anymore if they don´t fit above mentioned criteria! you don´t need to ask there will be no exceptions!
4) if you send me a link to post on my blog you´ll have to tell me why I can post it without violating this new rules(e.g. you play in that band, released it on your label,...) if it´s not old and out of print!
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As long as the labels own the rights, I'll continue to respect that (although I think Ken could have handled the situation more "delicately"). But I think we can all agree that something needs to change... releasing 2000 copies of something on one little label out of one country doesn't have the distribution power that downloading has. That is, if bands actually want people around the world to listen to their releases (Down with music-for-the-elite!)
ReplyDeleteAnyway... Long Desert Cowboy. Sounds so RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!
I have always found it fairly hypocritical from bloggers to post complete newly released / still in print records and at the same time writing "please support the bands, buy the records, etc...", yeah right...I wonder how many people actually buy a record they have downloaded a complete version on the net...if you want to promote a new band / new record, just post a few mp3s of the record, not the whole thing...
ReplyDeleteKen was pissed off and i can understand why, i find it very worrying that his label suffers so much that he thought about giving up, prank records is not a little label, it is one of the largest punk labels and has always released quality stuff (in my opinion).
Ironically, I think that another problem is that there has never been so many records released - a large part of them being mediocre - and it's impossible to buy everything...
phil
ahhh,that HHIG story again, it has become my stigma i guess...
ReplyDeletethe whole thing with this was a misunderstanding,Ken is ok guy and there 's no problem if he could have handled the situation in another "delicately" way: we
had a e-mail discussion,i explained him and he seemed to understand.
and yes,its hypocrisy to post a complete fresh new record,the out of print thing is basic:there are many records still in print on my blog,especially from Havoc and Skuld but only one or two tracks are available for downloading. furthermore,i have removed the dnld link from some other posts because there was a reissue after the record was posted.
i saw an interview of Felix and he says there's no problem if Havoc releases are available for free downloading in blogs but that means nothing to me:fresh new or still in print rec.s have no place on my blog.
This debate is tired. I believe that creating an interest or an awareness of a band is more important and does actually lead to the selling of records. Let's say that 10 people download the new Systemshit SS 7", of those 10, 8 have never even heard of Systemshit SS, of those 8, 5 may buy the ep.That's 5 sales that Systemshit didn't have before the blog posted the record. That is 8 more people that may attend their show at Bill's house when they come through. I have seen my band's albums on numerous blogs and never have I been compelled to moan about it. Anyhoo, it's your blog and yours to do with what you want. Cheers.
ReplyDeleteI´ve bought more than 1 record that I had downloaded before and I know others who did the same. so in my case the "tame writing" would have worked!
ReplyDeletesee in my eyes a record is not only the music. it is the sum of music, lyrics, artwork AND if those 3 combined succeed to "touch" me somehow. if they succeed then the whole is greater than the sum of the parts (what you´d call a classic) if a record/band doesn´t succeed in combining all 3, they still might be pretty good but... e.g. CITIZENS ARREST is a band that succeeded in combining all 3 points. SLAYER´s Reign in Blood has great music, I like the artwork but as the lyrics don´t mean shit to me they could never be compared to CxA for me but I still like them.
I know that other people aren´t like me and don´t give a fuck about the lyrics or the artwork and just want the music! but I doubt that those idiots would buy records anyway - if they don´t get what they want they might probably take whatever they get instead!
ask anybody who does a blog about the numbers of downloads and the numbers of comments that are made.
it´s all about the consume for most of the visitors! that´s why I can understand that Ken gets angry. I think that he puts a lot of energy and effort in his work and some people treat his work just like another product.
I agree 100% with Phill that the main problem is that there are way to many records released in this days. when I played in a band we did it the old school way: we wrote songs, we played live, we recorded a demo, we played more gigs, we recorded a 7", we did our first tour with DROP DEAD, we recorded a 12",... and that´s how every band should do it in my opinion as in our case you could hear & see improvement in between! if I listen to our demo today I´d like to deny any involvement. the 7" is a little better, some good songs but shitty recording and the 12" well I like it till today! and b.t.w. every other band from those days did it like this!
now there are so many bands that release their lousy 7" themselves as no one else would do it without even thinking of a demo! or in an even worser case they find some idiot who does it on his "label" to score scene points and to impress whoever!
as I said above: I see it quite like AESOP sees it as I don´t believe those that don´t feel the urge to get the real thing after stumbling over something of interest on the web won´t buy a record anyway. and some people playing in bands and/or running a label agree as proven in some comments. (my other points are proven in a lot of more comments! does any other blogger love it like I do when anonymous says: "link down! re-up!"?) if the world and/or our scene wouldn´t be populated with such idiots I´m quite sure NO band or label would feel the need to get angry! but as it is like it is and I don´t want to support those idiots I´ll listen to my new records myself and post old stuff that is of little to no interest for them as those bands aren´t known by them and their buddies and so they aren´t cool and you can´t brag with those as you could brag about your mp3 collection of fill-in-the-name-of-whatever-half-arsed-band-you-like!
oh, and I agree with AESOP that this debate is tired!
oh, I just saw the guy who plays the "but what if I just don´t have the money to buy records?" part hasn´t entered the stage yet!
even though I just wrote the longest comment in my entire blogging career I´ve forgotten to tell you some things I wanted to mention and I´m not sure if I managed to bring my point across 100% on everything, but as I´m tired right now...
ReplyDeletebut what I must ad is that LONG DESERT COWBOY are not just so RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW I d dare say they are RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWW!
Some 4-5 years ago I started to buy almost any old deutschpunk record that I could find (which I missed back in the days...) and that was BECAUSE I found mp3 files in some webs and that created my hunger; the old "Tommy's punk" web (now semi-dead and w/out mp3 files) had the entire Neurotic Arseholes 1st LP but I bought it because it was damn good. I'd say the same about Italian punk if it was a bit more available (nonetheless I buy whatever old Italian HC I find). Nowadays Im short of money but I know that come the time I'll buy lots of the stuff I've found on blogs and such.
ReplyDeleteBtw could you please re-up Canalterror and Toxoplasma's LPs (if they fit in the conditions above, which I don't know)?
Cheers,
Fernando :)
@ fernando:
ReplyDeletesorry, I had completely forgotten that I promised you to re-up those 2 when I´m back from London!
I know I said no exceptions but as I promised it and as I believe that you´re like me and feel the urge for the real thing when you´ve stumbled over something that catches your attention I´ll re-up them for you!
what stuff from Italy are you looking for? maybe I can help?
Well said Pope, that was your longest comment but worth read. My band did it the way you were talking about but never got past the 7" stage. I would have loved to have had this kind of exposure back in the day. At least the result might have been more people telling us we sucked. With or without the internet, if you can't sell the records (CD's) you make, that should tell you something. the reality is that you can get whatever you want music wise from the P2P sites. Blogs like this aren't anonymous like that and actually beg for involvement. There is also the fact that just about ever good blog states clearly that any upload can be deleted upon request. This is old and I ended up getting in the middle of it. This site rips Pope and remember it is yours to do with as you fucking please. This planet and people continues to bow down to big business and greed, yet people are concerned about the lowly blogger.
ReplyDeleteI actually know Ken, not real well, but we have alot of mutual friends and I must say I have the utmost respect for his work ethic. He's dedicated and down for all the right reasons, I feel that alot of label folks get rather heated when confronted by the idea of a free download, I personally don't. People who buy records will always buy them, people who don't probably never will. I discovered many great records through blogs and have turned around and bought the record for the packaging and to have it as a permanent, tangible part of my collection. Besides, with the sheer number of blogs like this, and even the lazy ones that just post others links, as well as Soulseek, Limewire, Torrents etc. it's futile to try to protect music. In this age, music can no longer be property, is that bad? I ramble, but I guess you have answered your own question: Are You Mean, no you're probably too nice.
ReplyDelete@ justin:
ReplyDeletein our case the result was that Carsten C. Roneberg Aachen / Germany wrote in his FANzine, which was called Only A Phase, that I am the most antisocial person he ever met after booking us for a show were I had myself some fun BUT did nothing that I´d consider somehow special! "abrasive honesty" isn´t everybody´s taste! hehehe
and about the complaints out of the "big business world"... those guys will always complain that´s part of the game as it distracts people from the fact that what is called music today is just a hoax in 95% of the cases!
and as more and more ordinary people begin to doubt that this mcd from the latest tv-casting-show-band is worth 7 bucks they know what they´ve to cry about today!
@ AESOP:
ReplyDeleteI overlooked your 2nd comment somehow... I don´t think I´m to nice I just respect what people like Ken do and if someone like Ken doesn´t want his releases on blogs like mine I´ll respect that even tough my personal experience tells me there are not to many people in punk/hc bands or running punk/hc labels that do not want their stuff on the web at all. oh, and for the record: I don´t know Ken personal and my decision has nothing to do with him.I was just referring to what he wrote on 7"CRUST but I know quite a few people of those who run the labels that have released the records you´ll find here as well as I know quite a lot of the people that (have)play(ed)in the posted bands personal and no one ever complaint. the opposite is true many of them offered help and provided me with unreleased tracks,...
I just don´t want to provide the anonymous visitors with nothing than another form of consumerism that results in a "link down re-up now!" comment by some fuckface who thinks that the blogger should be thankful that he choose his blog to d/l from at worst. the funny thing is that comments like that only appeared on posts of "bigger" bands. those people who asked for less known bands always asked very polite.
e.g. the "new" GEHENNA 12" (the one with all the old stuff re-recorded) - I wrote somewhere that the postman brought me that record and that it is even better than I expected it to be. 1st comment: where´s the link? I responded that as that record was just released he should go and buy it (you all should b.t.w.) and do something for the band. the answer from that idiot was: I should do something for him by uploading the record! another idiot wrote me a mail saying that the record is fucking expensive (I paid 12 bucks) and that he would like to know if would like it if he´d buy it before he buys it! hell-o retard, 2 3rds of those songs are up on my blog in their original versions but to recognize that you´ll have to read more than the post title (yup,you guessed it that´s the reason why I don´t name my posts after the band or record that is covered in the post!).
I hate stupidity and my new "rules" make me feel like I´ll disappoint some of the mentioned stupid idiots. well, not really but perhaps I can spare myself from shit like mentioned before with them! and that´s worth a try in my opinion (especially if you consider the fact that I can introduce new rules any time I like to do so! hehehe)
and for the sake of curiosity: in which band do you play?
It's simple: punk/hardcore/noise music blogging has helped to increase interest in bands.
ReplyDeleteI reserve right to download any record I wish, doing so in no way means that anyone lose money because there is never the guarantee that I would buy the record in first place.
When it comes to posting records on blogs it's common sense that new stuff should be avoided, though this is not mutually exclusive.
But yes, the number of times a band is mentioned correlates directly to how many "units" are then sold. Blogs serve a direct purpose here, that most of the time bands appreciate.
Hey man, thanks a lot for the re-up! Well, I'll comment on "my" post (haha) later. It's quite an interesting dialogue here; as I said, in my case, finding mp3s mostly stimulates my consumerism (I mean mucho buying and getting poorer!) so it's exactly the other way round as the old "home taping is killing music" tune (a song that was sung in the early 80's and there was even a logo with a pirate flag, remember? Bow Wow Wow did their song, "C30 C60 C90 Go" overtly fighting that campaign). At least that it's true when we talk about "cult" music (hate that term but...) like yer olde punk and hardcore. I guess the case's different when it's about the fucking "hoax" (thanks for using that term!) that is the latest commercial novelties and such.
ReplyDeleteOh, about Italian punk, I meant the unavailability of commercial CD's. Thankfully I found most of the stuff that I love most (CCM, Negazione, Raw Power, Wretched, I Refuse It!, Peggio Punx...) thru trades and bands websites, blogs etc, plus I found a couple of CD's (Negazione's & IRI's comps, Raw Power etc) but there's not too many avaliable. Some that I still miss: the Declino side of their split tape w/ Negazione (Mucchio selvaggio), the tape version of Chocu Umeret by IRI! (it has an intro which was deleted in the LP & CD versions), Franti, ... Thanks for your kind (are you really mean??? ;) ) interest in any case!
Fernando :)
home taping was as much killing music as blogging is killing music today or d/l movies is destroying the movie business!
ReplyDeletelife is really hard when your profits drop from whatever to poor several million bucks! I suffer with them!
I should have a copy of the NEGAZIONE / DECLINO split tape somewhere but as far as I remember the quality was really poor. I got some of the italian classics on record but somehow some of stuff (like TAMPAX) has become unlistenable for me. as soon as I put it on my record player it starts getting on my nerves. but I still dig NEGAZIONE and PUTRID FEVER.
Well said, Papst. Yes people are fucking leeching ingrates. I play in 2 bands, Ludicra and Agalloch, I used to be in Hickey.
ReplyDelete@ AESOP:
ReplyDeleteas I could´ve found out myself by looking at your profile... just checked your bands myspace sites. AGALLOCH is not really my cup of coffee but LUDICRA is quite good especially the vocals!
Thanks. Ludicra has 4 albums out. 2 on Life Is Abuse, and 2 on ALternative Tentacles. You should buy them all, DON'T download them from some shady blogspot, especially the AT ones, Jello isn't rich.
ReplyDeleteDude, keep posting the out of print stuff...I mean, NOT posting stuff IN PRESS is totally OBVIOUS!
ReplyDelete@Aesop:
ReplyDeletewhat? I shouldn´t download them? but if I don´t d/l them first how should I know if I like them? and I don´t have the money as I spend it all on booze that´s why you and/or the label have to support me! and...fuck it I´m running out of stupid excuses! let´s see, as some of them are on AT it might happen that I stumble over a vinyl copy here and then I´ll give LUDICRA a try as I really liked the vocals!
@sean:
it should be obvious not to do! but as I already got the new COLDWORKER (great record b.t.w.) from the web (which isn´t even released in europe yet) it seems like it´s not so obvious for everybody!
As all in life, this issue has its pros and cons. I think the blogs are doing a great job in the spread of the underground and punk music, especially for those who have few financial resources as punks and people in Latin America and Asia, for example. Not that be it a justification.
ReplyDeleteI remember when in the early 90's was so much hard to get any punk stuff here in my city (where the majority of punks was poor youngs with scarce infos), because there was little shops with so few records and as none punk had money to buy records (much less import it), we did copies in cassettes of the few records that were available in this shops.
Nowadays, many bands are known only due to blogs. I always had trouble buying records of unknown bands because I had never heard its and the zine reviews always are, of course, so much personal and imprecise. Then, blogging new bands or demos is important for we know the band and if we like what we listen, we can buy and follow the new or forthcoming releases.
With blogs or without it, who like to buy records always will buy it.
Anyway, I think that blogging is a crucial activity for divulge new bands, spread old and rare stuffs and increase the interest on the bands.
In this new reality, maybe the 7inchcrust´s policy be it the more adequate.
Cheers.